The Women for Environment and Development Organization (WEDO) has been the lead non-governmental (NGO) organization of the Women’s Caucus at the United Nations during the International Conference on Population and Development (ICPD). To such a degree, in fact, that it can be difficult to differentiate between WEDO and the caucus itself. Participants within the caucus are highly-skilled and motivated. They have consistently and effectively responded to United Nations’ documents with substantive recommendations. They have claimed, with good reason, responsibility for major portions of the resolutions approved at the International Conference on Population and Development (ICPD). Their ideology has not always been shared by other women attending the conference although many attending do share similar concerns regarding women’s wellbeing and mistreatment in various societal settings. Women who do not share the total ideology of WEDO members are not always welcome at the meetings but objections are not voiced unless those opposed on issues dare to speak out. Some dissenters have been told bluntly that they were not welcome.
In light of the strong political power-thrust of the campaign it is not surprising to discover that the original founders of WEDO’s parent organization, Women U.S.A, Fund, Inc., are a former Congresswoman Bella Abzug, and two current U.S. congresswomen, Patsy Mink and Maxine Waters, as well as Ms. Abzug’s speechwriter, Mim Kelber, and well-known feminist, Gloria Steinem. One expects that the politics of U.S. Congresswomen would be democratic and so the search for democracy in the agenda becomes an important part of this all too brief analysis.
The major funders of WEDO are the Ford Foundation, the MacArthur Foundation, the Jessie Smith Noyes Foundation and the Turner Foundation. All of these organizations are heavily involved in population control promotion although the first three include within their promotions concepts of ‘reproductive health.’ Ted Turner’s Turner Foundation, bears a stronger relationship to purist population control dogma. WEDO’s core monies total $630,000; special projects are not included in that amount. Funds are therefore available from various sources for effective lobbying efforts.
Women’s global campaign
Poetic imagery was used to express the utopian ideologies of some WEDO participants in the introduction of the latest document formulated by the organization. The document, prepared at a “Women’s Global Strategies” meeting held in Glen Cove, New York, 29 November – 2 December 1994, was prepared by “150 women from 53 countries,” according to Bella Abzug, president of WEDO. The ideological dream which precedes the text reads in part:
We are poised on the edge of the millennium — rain behind us,
no map before as, the taste of fear sharp on our tongues.
Yet we will leap.
The exercise of imagining is an act of creation.
The act of creation is an act of will
All this is political. And possible.
Bread. A clean sky. Active peace. A women’s voice singing somewhere, melody drifting like smoke from the cookfires. The army disbanded, the harvest abundant. The world healed, the child wanted, the prisoner freed, the body’s integrity honored, the lover returned. The magical skill that reads marks into meaning. The labor equal, fair, and valued. Delight in the challenge or consensus to solve problems. No hand raised in any gesture but greeting. Secure interiors — of heart, home, land — so firm as to make secure borders irrelevant at last. And everywhere laughter, care, celebration, dancing, contentment. A humble, earthly paradise in the now.
We will make it real, make it our own, make it policy, history, peace, make it available, make mischief, a difference, love, the connections, the miracle, ready.
Believe it.
We are the women who will transform the world. (Robin Morgan, et al, Women’s Global Strategy Reports, Working Group Reports, 2 December, 1994, Emphasis in the original).
The dramatic introduction and exalted claims presented in this poetic introduction recommend a close examination of the document for its linkages with reality and societal understandings.
The first characteristic of utopian dreams is their flight into the world of imagination. In such a world, the dream prevails rather than the deep engagement necessary to achieve substantive solutions grounded in reality. A failure to come to grips with what is essentially real fails to protect society or individuals from harm. Only a society that is both just and realistic is capable of synthesizing, integrating and creating a cohesion of shared values. The absence of cohesion causes social disintegration and chaos; a chaos which begs for totalitarian control rather than democracy. The vision of reality presented here will not alone tell us whether the solutions in this document are workable; analysis must address the dichotomy between rhetoric and action for it is in this division that reality is revealed.
Does the world really have nothing but ruin remaining? Are there no strengths on which humankind may draw? Has humanity not achieved at all in the past millenniums? Is there no unity in past human experience? Are there truly neither maps nor experiences to serve as guidance for the future of humankind? Or, are these poetic postulates simply an announcement of rebellion against human imperfection, an insistence that the world will begin with us; that we will be perfect; we will be the beginning and the end, the center of the universe; forming an image of Paradise Lost in which to lose ourselves, lacking the strength to face our weaknesses? And the access to forgiveness for own complicity? Does the will lead — and reason follow obediently? Let us begin at the beginning.
Strategies
The Women’s Global Strategies meeting held in Glen Cove, New York, 29 November – 2 December 1994, recommended the launching of a 180 day campaign on 8 March 1995 in Copenhagen (International Women’s Day) at the World Summit for Social Development (WSSD), culminating on 6 September 1995 in Beijing at the Fourth World Women’s Congress (WCW). The purpose of the campaign is to “raise awareness among women and men that the Copenhagen and Beijing conferences are taking place” and that the outcome “will affect women everywhere.” Women are to be encouraged and activated at the community, national, regional and international levels to “oppose the backlash against women’s rights now appearing in many parts of the world.”
The campaign does not stand apart from the United Nations which has often been responsible for undemocratic and damaging behaviors; on the contrary, it bases its claims for power on previous U.N. resolutions. The effort is intended to encourage “the support of governments and the United Nations” while supporting those who are “currently working to encourage governments to adopt ‘women-friendly’ policies.” Governments will be held “accountable for past and present promises,” to the United Nations. The campaign is also to “take issues to…the future leadership generation of young girls and women in every country.”
The Message to be conveyed is that “global economic and social systems are not working…Women,” the document insists, “have the vision to lead a movement to articulate alternatives and provide solutions.”
The 180 days of the campaign have been chosen to “provide a time frame to collect support for positive change.” The time measurement is to provide “an umbrella concept sheltering all NGOs and women’s groups,” the document states.
“[R]esponse mechanisms” are to be created, such as questionnaires or postcards to be “gathered and analyzed.” After compilation and analysis, the “questionnaires will be made public and distributed to all government delegates.” Serious questions must be raised at this juncture about the questionnaires themselves: who formulated them and selected the questions? — as a starter. Whoever provided the formulation also established an agenda — but whose agenda is it? And, since the preparation of the questionnaires is done by selected persona, how are they selected? The “response mechanisms” are to be used to suggest broad representation by and among ‘all women.’ Is this, in fact, true? These selected “responses” are also to be used as “a countdown of women’s needs and demands” and provide “alternative solutions to evaluate the WSSD and WWC ‘Plans of Action’”; these responses are to be used as lobbying tools and also used to name the “good” which is the selected “needs and demands,” as well as the “alternative” action agenda. And women will be led to believe that they formulated the agenda — an old ‘magician’s’ trick, at least as old as Machiavelli himself.
The “180-Day Local-to-Global-to-Local Women’s Empowerment Campaign” is to present a “women’s agenda for change” as a focal point for “informing, mobilizing and activating millions of women in their communities and countries.” It will also be designed to construct a link between the World Summit on Social Development and the World Women’s Congress; that is, the women’s agenda will be linked directly to economic requirements. Sounding a bit like the old-time politicians’ rhetorical promise of ‘a chicken in every pot,’ the document states that the key to the campaign’s effectiveness is to “offer women at every level of awareness, need, accomplishment and vision” whatever they believe will “improve their lives” and the lives of other women “all around the world.” The campaign is to be designed to appeal to “women who bear responsibility for family life and children”; those who “work outside and inside the home”; those “bound to traditional roles by religious and cultural practices”; “those who fail to see the connection between their problems and acts of governments, financial institutions and governments at all levels”; those who are in leadership positions; those who depend on government for empowerment and assistance; and finally, to “those who share our belief that the full and equal participation of women is essential to creating a peaceful, healthy planet with social justice, economic opportunity and human rights for all women, men and children.” Who is left to oppose the power grab after all of that ‘inclusion’? And who could deliver on such inclusive promises?: ‘just follow our agenda and the world will become peaceful, healthy, just, wealthy, and grant unlimited ‘rights’ to all.”’ This clearly comprises a broad appeal for a power grant to the politician from “all women, men and children” while at the same time inviting all ‘believers’ to fall into the utopian dream. The central inquiry remains — what is the agenda?
While definitions of ‘social justice, economic opportunity and human rights’ are often dissonant in the larger society, the terminology of the campaign document is phrased in such a way that individuals could well assume their understandings will reign, that is, in terms of their own definitions — a product of their personal yearnings — without an awareness that the pay off may not be what they expect.
Campaign timeline
During the month of December planning and organizing committees composed of representatives of women’s networks were to be selected, Slogans were to be composed. Specific plans for activities on 8 March and 6 September were to begin with the 50th anniversary of the U.N. used as a tie-in for promotion. Publicity and electronic conferences were to be planned.
A planning meeting is to be held during the January Social Summit meeting in New York. Women’s groups and networks in various countries and regions are to be encouraged to plan local campaigns and outreach. Subcommittees are to be set up and responsibilities are to be assigned. A central communications centre is to be selected. Local groups are to be invited to focus actions on their particular concerns and report their plans to the communications centre.
For the 8 March 1995 activities in Copenhagen, press conferences are to be scheduled in major cities. The focus is to be on local needs (an example of populist sensitivity?), support for the Social Summit, Women’s Conference and the Habitat conference, and implementation of environment, human rights and population conferences.
The specific demands on government will be “send women delegates to the Women’s Conference include NGOs on country delegations and appoint women as heads of their delegations? Included in the plans is a call for a one-day ceasefire for all wars. September 6th is to be declared a “Solidarity/Empowerment Day for Women’s Rights.” On that day, events are to be scheduled in all private and public workplaces to “celebrate women and focus on their aspirations and needs.”
On the political scene, a call for the establishment of a National Advisory Commission on the Status of Women, the ratification of the Convention on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW), the adoption of the 50-50 goal, that is, 50 percent of the leadership positions in both business and government should be held by women in every country.
During the period from March to September, the focus will be on local campaigns to activate women. Worldwide activities are to occur on 6 September; “thousands of activities should be planned in cities and communities throughout the world.” Publicity materials should be released to print media, radio and television, Newspaper advertisements are to be placed.
Women are to focus on their particular issues, that is, their personal agenda, whether it be “demonstrations at military and nuclear bases, picketing sweatshops that exploit women workers, lobbying for reproductive rights programs, or focusing on women’s health issues. Women are to take over legislatures for a day, conduct forums, schedule lunchtime meetings with coworkers,” and “dream up any myriad of actions.”
September 6th will be “The Day That Women Rule the World.” The third day of the conference will be turned over to women NGOs who “will speak and propose amendments to the official draft Plan of Action for Beijing.” Reports on women’s activities all over the world are to be presented to “demonstrate their support for a strong action platform.” The planning committee will meet at the NGO Forum in Beijing, announce plans for future actions, and issue a special report on the campaign. The groups in each country will be coordinated as a focal point for women’s ongoing activities and for the purpose of “monitor[ing] the implementation of the U.N. Plans for Action coming out of Social Summit, Women’s Summit and the previous environmental, population, and human rights summits.”
Summit on Social Development
The WSSD is viewed by the Campaign document as an opportunity to create “a new development paradigm fundamental to women’s interests.” It should be “centered on human development with provision for “improved quality of life and sustainable livelihoods for all.” In December 1986, “The declaration of the Right to Development was adopted by a General Assembly resolution.” Women are not only to “demand the right to development, but also the right to define the development in line with the definition of development goals in the Declaration.” The promotion of “sustainable development” is seen as implying the implementation of “universal, economic, social, cultural, civil, and political Human Rights, and must be based on ecologically sound principles.”
Constructive movements towards improving human development opportunities for women and girls would be a major step forward. The topic of human development for women and girls could well be an opportunity for women’s unpaid work within the family and the household to be recognized and credited within national labor systems. Educational opportunities for women and girls in many countries urgently need to be improved. One concern about the educational focus under the aegis of the United Nations is a concentration on primary education systems. While required primary education would be a marked advance for many girls, it would be hoped that girls and women would also be encouraged to develop their abilities beyond the primary grades. Too often education for girls and women is referenced primarily in terms of encouraging small families rather than concentrating on their education development.
Also, in a number of countries, higher educational opportunities are limited to the political elites or party members. The example of China comes to mind where educational opportunities for village girls [and boys) are nonexistent and higher education is limited to the political elites. It would be wise to be aware however, that the move toward universality in all-embracing categories such as economical, social, cultural, civil and political, suggests a move toward conformity rather than individualism, raising concerns about democratic principles.
…Recommendations
Weaknesses of the Social Summit document were seen by the Campaign as: the lack of a gender-specific approach; a lack of criteria for social development; a failure to identify problems associated with structural adjustment programs; and the failure to address the feminization of poverty.
Additional weaknesses observed were: “a failure to discuss limits to economic growth” and “define demands on industrial countries regarding consumption and production.” “Employment and job creation goals” have not been discussed in relation to “sustainable production and consumption patterns.” In addition, “a failure to discuss violence against women and their unequal participation in the development process is missing within the language of the document.”
The focus on the family as the basic unit of society is viewed as “overlooking the particular needs of single women, children and adolescents,” and does not “articulate or recognize the changing configuration of the family.” This commentary will freshen the extended debate on “redefining the family” which occurred during the Cairo meetings. There is also an assumption here that single women, children and adolescents are not to be treated as members of family units, This tendency towards individualism, in which single women and children are to be treated as individuals rather than as family members, appears to contradict the previous thrust for conformity through the establishment of “universal economic, social, civil and political rights.” Although this is an apparent move toward individualism, a force is exercised through this approach to separate the individual from the network of personal relationships provided by the family and then subjecting that individual to the conformity of imposed values; those values being redefined as ‘rights.’ It is critical for a complete understanding to identify the particular values which have been redefined.
…Enabling environment
Accountability for financial and trade institutions is seen here as necessary; the U.N. is proposed as the organization which should provide “monitoring and control mechanisms.” The proposal of the U.N. as a monitoring and control agency raises questions for consideration. Financial institutions such as the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund have been part of the United Nations complex for many years; in that time the U.N. has HDI moved to relieve structural adjustment problems for the developing nations. Countries who continue to turn to the very organizations which created their problems could well be doomed to disappointment regarding solutions.
WEDO calls for the tracking of all national and international economic and development programs by “social and gender impact studies.” They call for the provision of “disaggregated data on the impact of their programs on women, children and vulnerable groups.” Such tracking could add heavily to the debt of developing countries through increased loan and program costs.
In addition, many of these countries still have not perfected their census-taking capacities. How will this serious deficiency interface with such requirements? As it is, projections of population numbers have too often proven to be “guesstimates, dignified by decimal points,” in the descriptive terms of economist Nicholas Eberstadt. Census-taking frequently becomes subject to distortion as various groups vie for political recognition. In such cases, gender-impact studies could become subject to varying political interpretations dependent upon the political power plays in motion within each country. This “might makes right” approach to data collection can seriously interfere with the provision of services to the people.
Restrictions are called for on “economic growth in industrialized countries” where “unsustainable uses of natural and nonrenewable resources” have occurred. “The transference of common property resources (water, forests, grazing lands and fishing waters) to which local people have usufructory rights, should be prohibited to any national or international corporation.” Throughout this document, there are continuous references to transnational controls which could threaten countries’ sovereignty but this prohibition relating to countries’ property rights over their own land is one of the most glaring; it amounts to the transference of countries’ property rights to transnational government. Granted that corruption in government is an altogether too common problem, nevertheless, a nation’s people have a better chance of improving policies within their own government than they would of affecting a transnational government. There is also no guarantee whatsoever that transnational government would not be just as corrupt as country governments. This is a prime example of the retreat into a dream world where, “secure borders [are] irrelevant at last.”
…Eradication of poverty
Although it is understandable that an organization such as WEDO, whose task it is to present the views and concerns of women, should focus on the effects of poverty on women, nevertheless it should be noted that the experience of poverty is more broad scope in its devastation, extending to all individuals within society, women, men and children. The WEDO document reads: “New and existing national strategies and action plans for women’s empowerment should be integrated with poverty alleviation and conservation of natural resources and transformed into overall national development plans.” Were ’empowerment’ limited to women while excluding other members of society, the same negative effects could develop in reverse, which have caused present concerns about discrimination. Vindication between classes of people would not contribute to the cohesion necessary to a healthy social environment. Women and men live in society together; what affects one affects all. Viable employment opportunities and vested property interests must be available for all, including the elderly and the disabled (See “The Third Way,” PRI Review, vol.4, no.6, 9-14).
Corrupt government policies at local, national and international level are all too responsible for the poverty of the countries; from the policies which locate vodka kiosks in Ukrainian cities, to the liquor stores on every comer in the U.S. inner cities, to the questionable lack of control over drug traffic within those cities, and to the kidnapping and sale of children for commercial adoption, prostitution and organ transplants, not to mention the trafficking in pharmaceuticals and experimentation on women — all speak of government failure — and strongly suggest government complicity. ‘We, the people’ cannot afford to escape into gnostic dreams of transnational governments composed of saintly bureaucrats.
…Employment
“Women’s unpaid work must be recognized, valued and remunerated. The wage gap must be eliminated and opportunities opened for all women to secure, meaningful and socially productive work.” Previous comments have already addressed the lack of recognition of women’s unpaid work and opportunities for women but the social benefits of this work have not been discussed. Thoughtful discussions of these benefits both to society and to all family members, including women, need to occur beyond the narrow vision of commercial and economic interests. In fact, women’s motherhood is treated negatively and children discussed only in terms of economic or health costs. The joys associated with motherhood and children are seldom acknowledged.
WEDO calls for “the commitment for full employment” to be upheld. They offer the options of a “universal guaranteed income, payment for childcare and other socially productive activities.” The terminology in this section needs definition. What is “secure, meaningful and socially productive work”? And who is going to pay the bill for a “universal guaranteed income”? Transnational government through “ensured” tax collection from the people and their workplaces within the countries?
Is this the answer?: “The burdens of taxation should be shifted from labour to consumption of natural and non-renewable resources,” But, consumption is already taxed in many countries through sales taxes. Does this approach infer the elimination of income taxes? This suggestion needs to be accompanied by deep economic analysis.
…Social integration
“All countries should ratify the six core human rights treaties: the international Convention for the protection of Migrant Workers and their Families and relevant International Labor Organization (ILO) Conventions by the year 2000 without reservations.” The ratification of these treaties, without reservations, or otherwise, brings us back again to the question of sovereignty — back to the ideological dream. The contents of the dream, a vision in which security of “heart, home, land” are so completely unthreatened that “borders [are] irrelevant at last.” Treaties prepared by transnational governments, particularly unelected government, need not take either cultural, social economic or political concerns specific to countries into consideration. Reservations provide an open road to agreement without endangering either the sovereignty of the countries or their relationship with other countries.
“Women need to be recognized as independent persons with full legal capacity.” This “must” needs much more complete examination for its legal and social significance. There may well be problems with this language that aren’t immediately obvious.
“Urgent attention must be given to the rights of indigenous peoples to self-determination. The principle of equity should be the basis of all poverty alleviation programs, nationally and internationally.”
…Resources for social development
The Campaign document refers to the need for new resources for social development and suggests an international tax proposed by James Tobin, winner of the 1981 Nobel Prize for economics. Tobin proposed: “A 0.5% tax on foreign exchange transactions” [which] would have a “revenue potential of over $1.5 trillion a year” (United Nations Human Development Report 1994, 70).
“At the national level resources can be generated through progressive taxation of individuals and corporations, introduction of wealth taxes and taxation on speculative financial transactions (i.e. lotteries).”
Fourth World Women’s Congress, Beijing
Desired “strategies and actions” for the World Women’s Congress were seen as needing additional considerations in a number of subject areas. Among the most pressing were problems faced by emerging democracies which are “threatened by the rapid implementation of economic reforms and the introduction of market economies.” Inequitable redistribution of resources was viewed as the cause of “an increase of poverty, civil conflict, …disparities in society and further marginalization of women…[and] the expansion of transnational companies which are challenging national policies for human development.”
The document expressed concern for the exclusion of women with disabilities from “gatherings where women’s issues are being discussed” and demanded that “funding for women must commit ten percent to women with disabilities.” U.N. Standard Rules on the Equalization of Opportunities for persons with Disabilities must be applied so that women with disabilities can participate at all decision-making levels.
…Poverty
WEDO calls for “a fifty percent reduction [in poverty] by the year 2000.” Adjustments which affect women must be made in country economic policy: “Women must receive an equal share of development assistance; and the right of migrants and refugee women to employment and social services must be established.”
The document calls for the establishment of an “open, equitable, secure, non-discriminatory and predictable international trading system.” And “structural adjustment programmes” must be “designed and implemented to provide social and environmental protections.” Currently, “structural adjustment” raises the costs of health, education and services creating a Malthusian misery which can result in a tragic deepening of poverty. Unfortunately, a number of debt relief programs floated by the industrialized countries, United Nations agencies and financial institutions further tighten controls for population control within their requirements.
“Inequities and barriers to women’s participation in the economy should be eliminated and women’s participation in all policy-making and implementation, as well as their access to productive resources, and ownership of land, and their right to inherit property should be promoted and strengthened.”
“Full cancellation of debt for the poorest countries and adjustment of debt relief for other countries.” What should be added to that list would be access to vested property rights for all within the workplace in order to eliminate “wage slavery” and the new feudal order of international economics.
…Education
WEDO calls for “compulsory and free education for girls [including] the provision of free books, meals, flexible school schedules, scholarships, [and the] encourage[ment] of parents to provide gender-free socialization.” This interest should be “prioritized in national budgets.”
This should include “informal education, vocational and technical training for girls and women; development of skills to cope with social and technical changes; and sexual and reproductive education to girls and boys.”
Other educational policies supported by the campaign include “gender sensitive education for teachers, gender-sensitive textbooks [and] educational policy reform which includes women in planning, design and implementation.”
…Health
WEDO calls for the implementation of the International Conference on Population and the proposals contained within the Jakarta and Dakar documents.” The issues of “maternal mortality and morbidity” and the “delivery of affordable and accessible primary health care services including safe motherhood services.” The resolution of the “safe motherhood” issue in Cairo turned on alterations in the language of the document. These changes do nothing to alter the major focus on abortion and contraceptive technologies within the World Bank, UNFPA, UNICEF, UNDP, and IPPF partnership for the “Safe Motherhood Initiative.” This focus raises puzzling questions.
Knowing that the “Rarity of maternity deaths” in the developed world is easily traced to the discovery of antibiotics and the perfection of caesarian delivery, and blood transfusion,” as well as “management of hypertensive disorders” (WHO, Maternal Mortality Fact Book, Geneva 1991, 5), we are left to wonder whether other reasons such as population reduction and cost’ are responsible for the United Nations’ major focus on fertility factors in addressing problems of maternal mortality in the developing world.
Additional health hazards for women referenced in the document include the increasing impact of HIV/AIDS on women and environmental and occupational hazards.
Parity
On the issue of parity, WEDO insists “equality of women and men in all aspects of decision-making in the public and private arenas at community, national and international levels; women leaders elected and appointed to decision-making positions must be accountable to the concerns, demands, and platform articulated by women in Beijing.” Governments should achieve 50 percent representation in elected and appointed office by the year 2000. Private corporations and financial institutions, trade unions, etc., should also increase the numbers of women in key positions to 50 percent by that time.
In addition, “Targets or quota systems should be set in place with mechanisms for monitoring; governments and NGOs should collaborate to ensure achievement of targets.”
The U.N. Secretariat “should prepare a gender-balance rating card to be made public and distributed, rating and ranking member States on the basis of numbers, positions, titles, race and ethnicity of women participating in their missions. Further, each General Assembly agenda should include an item under which Member States report orally or in writing on the measures being taken to achieve equality of women and men in decision-making positions. A women’s caucus and a committee should be established on the status of women; political parties should establish charters guaranteeing equal rights for women.” The card should be “made public and distributed, rating and ranking member States on the basis of numbers, positions, titles, race and ethnicity of women participating in their missions. Further, each General Assembly agenda should include an item under which Member States report orally or in writing on the measures being taken to achieve equality of women and men in decision-making positions. A women’s caucus and a committee should be established on the status of women; political parties should establish charters guaranteeing equal rights for women.”
Conclusion
The U.N. has been helpless in the face of war, crime (see above), the control of pharmaceuticals and the related experimentation on women, etc. When dealing with the population issue, it has consistently chosen to initiate its programs in countries with military security governments and dictatorships: Brazil, Chile, Indonesia, Nigeria, China, the Marcos’ Government in the Philippines, etc. The takeover of intimate human relationships by any form of government is not a characteristic of democracy. U.N. programs, and those of some of its associated NGOs have developed a strong reach for totalitarian controls over humanity. It is a sad day for women, if women’s groups such as WEDO follow the U.N. model as they seem to be doing.
